Category Archives: uk debt

Scotland ‘should not take on UK debt’ unless it can keep the pound says leading economist

Professor Sir James Mirrlees

Scotland ‘should not take on UK debt’ unless it can keep the pound

Yes campaign’s economist plots way ahead if Westminster refuses to share sterling

In this article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, in the Daily Telegraph today 25.0.14, the usual British line that the UK will continue as RUK if Scotland “leaves” is still being peddled. However if you ignore the blatant RUK nonsense then this article also illustrates why England would be bettter off independent from the near bankrupt UK too.

Here is the article:-

An independent Scotland should walk away from its share of the UK’s national debt if Westminster continues to refuse a sterling union, one of the Yes campaign’s leading economic gurus has advised.

“Britain inherits the debt,” said Sir James Mirrlees, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and a prestigious figure on Scotland’s Council of Economic Advisers.

“It is hard to see how Scotland can take on the debt unless there is a full currency union,” he told The Telegraph. “This is implied by the hard-line taken by Westminster. It is Scotland’s bargaining position.”

Crawford Beveridge, chairman of Scotland’s Fiscal Commission Working Group, warned last week that any such move would be “morally difficult” and likely deemed a “default” by credit ratings agencies.

Not even the Baltic states entirely repudiated Soviet-era debts in the early 1990s, even though the Soviet occupation of their countries was never recognised by the West. It would be hard for Scotland to invoke the “doctrine of odious debts” – where debts run up by despotic regimes can legitimately be reneged on – under international law. The Czech and Slovak republics divided the Czechoslovak debt on a pro-rata basis after their “velvet divorce”.

Sir James said Scotland could continue to use the pound as legal tender inside the country if necessary, whatever London decides. “No country has stopped its currency from being circulated in another state that I know of,” he said.

He suggested that Edinburgh could equally issue a Scottish pound that is pegged to sterling and backed by a currency board along the lines of Hong Kong’s model. But, in his opinion, neither option, if forced upon Scotland, would entail any obligation to take on UK debt.

Sir James said this clash can be avoided. He believes the common sense option for all involved is to agree on a co-operative union. The British themselves would enjoy a “non trivial” benefit from being able to use their own coin in Scotland. “The easiest transition would be to keep using sterling for five to 10 years,” he said.

All three parties in Westminster say they will oppose a currency union after independence, insisting that the eurozone crisis has revealed the perils of trying to share a currency with separate fiscal policies. Sir James played a central role in First Minister Alex Salmond’s Fiscal Commission earlier this year in drafting plans for a future currency. A former Cambridge professor, he is now professor-at-large at the Chinese University of Hong Kong.

He said the eurozone currency experiment has gone badly wrong – and has previously called for the weaker Club Med countries to withdraw – but insists that a UK-Scottish currency union would be a different animal. “The risks have been greatly exaggerated,” he said, speaking at the Nobel laureates’ gathering in Lindau, Germany.

Sir James said the English and Scottish economies are closely interwoven, like Germany and The Netherlands. There is little danger of an “asymmetric shock” for Scotland alone, though he acknowledged that declining oil revenues are a “little worrying” and might force fiscal cuts. However, he appeared to suggest that this would be outweighed by the benefits of eliminating the entire public debt, freeing up interest payments.

The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates Scotland’s share of the debt to be £143bn. The UK authorities have announced that they would stand behind these liabilities in order to reassure markets – and will even stand behind RBS and Scottish-based banks temporarily – but this is intended to be a holding action, not a settlement.

Debt repudiation would cause the UK’s gross debt ratio to jump by seven points to 98pc of GDP on the Eurostat gauge. Critics say it would be an inglorious way for Scotland to begin its life as a sovereign nation, poisoning relations with its chief economic partner.

Use of sterling in the face of British opposition would leave Scotland without a lender-of-last resort in a crisis. Sir James said this is manageable if bank support is restricted to high street operations, excluding the global arm of banks such as RBS.

Sir James has equally radical views on taxation, though they are not specifically aimed at Scotland. He proposes “negative taxation” or subsidies for the West’s poorest workers to shield them from low-wage competition from Asia. He also endorses a top marginal tax rate of 100pc for “very high incomes” on the grounds that some people will continue to work regardless, specifically citing tennis players. This may come as a surprise to Scottish tennis star Andy Murray.
Click here for a link to the original article>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11054359/Scotland-should-not-take-on-UK-debt-unless-it-can-keep-the-pound.html

Below is what Wikipedia says about the Professor. Who do you believe – him or Ambrose from the Telegraph?

Sir James Alexander Mirrlees FRSE FBA (born 5 July 1936) is a Scottish economist and winner of the 1996 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences. He was knighted in 1998.

Born in Minnigaff, Kirkcudbrightshire, Mirrlees was educated at the University of Edinburgh (MA in Mathematics and Natural Philosophy in 1957) and Trinity College, Cambridge (Mathematical Tripos and PhD in 1964 with thesis title Optimum planning for a dynamic economy), where he was a very active student debater. One contemporary, Quentin Skinner, has suggested that Mirrlees was a member of the Cambridge Apostles along with fellow Nobel Laureate Amartya Sen during this period. Between 1968 and 1976, Mirrlees was a visiting professor at MIT three times. He taught at both Oxford University (1969–1995) and University of Cambridge (1963– and 1995–).

During his time at Oxford, he published papers on economic models for which he would eventually be awarded his Nobel Prize. They centred on situations in which economic information is asymmetrical or incomplete, determining the extent to which they should affect the optimal rate of saving in an economy. Among other results, they demonstrated the principles of “moral hazard” and “optimal income taxation” discussed in the books of William Vickrey. The methodology has since become the standard in the field.

Mirrlees and Vickrey shared the 1996 Nobel Prize for Economics “for their fundamental contributions to the economic theory of incentives under asymmetric information”.

Mirrlees is also co-creator, with MIT Professor Peter A. Diamond of the Diamond-Mirrlees Efficiency Theorem, developed in 1971.

Mirrlees is emeritus Professor of Political Economy at the University of Cambridge, and Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge. He spends several months a year at the University of Melbourne, Australia. He is currently the Distinguished Professor-at-Large of The Chinese University of Hong Kong as well as University of Macau. In 2009, he was appointed Founding Master of the Morningside College of The Chinese University of Hong Kong.

Mirrlees is a member of Scotland’s Council of Economic Advisers. He also led the The Mirrlees Review, a review of the UK tax system by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

His students have included eminent academics and policy makers Sir Partha Dasgupta, Professor Huw Dixon, Lord Nicholas Stern, Professor Anthony Venables, and Sir John Vickers.

Despite the headlines – Per capita GDP is down from 2008 because the population has grown by 1-2 million through immigration and consequent high birth rates

So beware of the agenda when you see headlines like these:-

Telegraph
UK economy finally returns to pre-crisis level

Second quarter GDP growth of 0.8pc means total economic output was 0.2pc points bigger than in the first quarter of 2008, its previous peak

By Alan Tovey
9:52AM BST 25 Jul 2014
Britain’s economy is now bigger than it was at its pre-financial crisis peak, after official data showed gross domestic product increased by 0.8pc in the second quarter of the year.
The growth was driven by the dominant services sector – which accounts for almost four-fifths of the British economy – and was 1pc larger in the quarter compared with the same period last year, according to the Office for National Statistics.
Output in the production sector, which accounts for about 15pc of the economy, rose by 0.4pc. However, output in construction – 6pc of the British economy – contracted by 0.5pc over the period, and agriculture – less than 1pc of the economy, fell 0.2pc.
The overall growth – which was widely predicted – means the UK economy is now 0.2pc bigger than its previous peak, which was hit in the first three months of 2008. On an annual basis, GDP rose by 3.1pc in the quarter, the fastest pace of growth since late 2007.
The size of the contraction from peak to the trough in 2009 was 7.2pc.
Howard Archer, chief UK and European economist at IHS Global Insight, said: “Given that it has taken more than six years for the economy to get ahead of where it was in 2008 and the economy is still only 0.2pc larger, any celebrations should be qualified… but at least we can finally celebrate this fact.”
He added that there was some concern that the growth was driven by the services sector, despite the Government’s drive to “rebalance” the economy towards manufacturing.
Britain’s dominant services sector powers more than three-quarters of the UK economy.
However, Britain’s economy could well have grown past its previous peak several months ago, according to Peter Spencer, chief economic adviser to the EY ITEM Club. He pointed out that revisions to the methodology by which GDP is measured that are due out in September – such as taking items from the “black economy” such as prostitution and drug dealing – could show “we sailed past the previous peak long before”.
Joe Grice, chief economic adviser at the ONS, said: “The economy has now shown significant growth in six consecutive quarters and the long climb back to the pre-crisis peak of 2008 has at last been completed. It is worth noting, however, that changes this autumn to the way countries measure their GDPs may yet modify our view of how slow the UK’s recovery has been.”
Although Britain’s economy is now powering ahead – on Thursday the International Monetary Fund upgraded its forecast for the UK, predicting growth in 2014 will 3.2pc this year, an increase of 0.4 points that takes Britain ahead of all other developed nations – it has taken a long time to reach this point.
“It has been a long slog, with the UK the second to last member of the G7 group of economies to reach the milestone and taking much longer to rebound than in past recessions,” said Guy Ellision, of head of UK equities at Investec Wealth & Investment.
Germany passed its pre-crisis peak in 2010 and France and the US followed the next year. The slow pace of Britain’s recovery from the crisis is partly because of the size of its banking sector, which took a huge hit in the financial crisis. But critics of the government say it is also because finance minister George Osborne opted for sharp curbs on public spending to rein in the country’s large budget deficit.
The British Chambers of Commerce also sounded a cautious note, warning that growth cannot be taken for granted.
“The fact that Britain’s economy is now bigger than it was in 2008 is great news, and will provide a shot in the arm for businesses and consumers alike,” said John Longworth, the organisation’s director-general. “Yet even though we’re one of the fastest-growing developed economies, there’s no room for complacency.
“Without sustained action, these growth figures could be ‘as good as it gets’ for the UK. The Government and the Bank of England must pull out all the stops to encourage business investment, help exporters and get finance flowing to growing firms who still aren’t seen as a safe bet by the banks.”
He added that he wanted to see interest rates stay low for as long as possible and when they do go up to rise “slowly and predictably” to avoid “undermining the solid business confidence that’s driving growth”.
However, some economics commentators warned that the consumer and business spending that is driving the growth could cause rates to rise.
“The GDP figures mark a concrete expansion of the UK economy to surpass pre-crisis levels and we expect upwards revisions to the data in the coming months,” said Gautam Batra, investment strategist at Signia Wealth. “A pick up in investment spending combined with strong consumer spending will no doubt put further pressure on the MPC to consider rate increases sooner rather than later.”
GDP per person is only expected to return to pre-crisis levels in 2017, reflecting growth in the population and the country’s stubbornly weak productivity since 2008, according to Britain’s independent budget forecasters.

The ONS’s preliminary estimates of GDP do not include a breakdown of spending. They are the first released in the European Union, and are based partly on estimated data.

ENGLAND says YES to Scottish Independence!

ENGLAND says YES to Scottish Independence!

Here is the text of our press release:-

The 30th May saw the start of the Scottish Referendum in earnest.

The English Democrats, England’s only nationalist Party, supports the YES campaign for Scotland to vote for Independence.

Constitutionally – A YES vote will lead to the dissolution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain this will therefore lead to Independence for England – Good news for English Nationalists!

EU – Both Scotland and England will be New or “Successor” states in International Law and so, as Senor Barroso recently confirmed, they will both be automatically outside the EU – Good news for Eurosceptics!

Barnett Formula – The House of Lords reported in 2009 that the subsidy from English Taxpayers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland was £49 billion per year. This will cease with the Dissolution of the UK – Good news for English Taxpayers!

UK Debt – The British Government is one of the most profligate and spendthrift institutions on earth and has run up debts of well over £1 trillion and is still increasing even that stupendous figure by over £100 billion a year in “deficit”. This £1 billion per week (52 billion a year) is now bleeding England white. Dissolution of the UK means that financially our New Nation States will not be required to take on the British Government’s debts – Good news for our grandchildren!

UN Security Council – The Dissolution of the UK will mean that our New Nation States will not automatically have the British position on the UN Security Council and so our politicians won’t be so easily diverted from doing their duty to look after the interests of our Nation and People by the glittering prospects of strutting about “punching above our weight on the world stage” – which has cost us over £29 billion in our strategic failures in Iran and Afghanistan. Good news for all who long for us to mind our own business and to look after England’s interests! (the real “Little Englanders”?)

Robin Tilbrook, the Chairman of the English Democrats said:- “Scottish Independence offers a terrific opportunity not only for Scotland but also for England to Reboot or Restore good sense and good order for our Nation and to wipe away the terrible effects of years of British Government incompetence, irresponsibility and profligacy!”

Robin Tilbrook
Chairman,
The English Democrats

YOU COULD OWE £6,000 MORE IF SCOTLAND BECOMES A “NEW” STATE!

YOU COULD OWE £6,000 MORE IF SCOTLAND BECOMES A “NEW” STATE!


Although the English Democrats and the Campaign for an English Parliament are in some sense sister organisations, we haven’t always seen eye to eye on every issue, but the Campaign for an English Parliament has kept going over the years campaigning for proper and fair constitutional recognition for England.  It has recently made two submissions to the House of Lords Committee’s Inquiry on the implications for the “rest of the UK” if Scotland goes independent. 

The second submission looks critically at Nicola Sturgeon’s submission on behalf of the Scottish Government, in which she made it clear that the SNP’s negotiating position on the question of Scotland being a new State is going to be that in that case Scotland is not liable for the UK’s debt. 

My suspicion is that Alex Salmond and his team have thought very carefully about what they put in their proposal for Scottish Independence and included in it several tank traps which they fully expected the arrogant and ignorant and unprincipled, short-termist Westminster politicians and British Political and Media Establishment to fall into. 

Such a one is the question of Scotland keeping the pound and having involvement with decision making at the Bank of England. 

All three Establishment parties conspired together to attack this proposal at the same time.  They obviously hadn’t thought through their position.  Because by arguing that there could be such a thing as the “rest of the UK” (rUK) and that Scotland would be a new State (and therefore said that they would have to apply for all sorts of things that the SNP wanted, like being in the EU), they failed to realise that by making that attack they were arguing that under International Law, the new State of Scotland would not be liable for any of the old State’s liabilities. 

So in effect, Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Balls and Miliband have managed to argue that constitutionally the new Scotland should not be liable to pay a penny for its share of the British Government’s debt.  Not even for the billions spent under Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling for propping up Scottish banks!

Recently a long-standing member of the Party has sent me in a letter that he has had from his MP, Danny Alexander, the Scottish Liberal Democrat, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who in his letter says that Scotland’s share of the British Government debt is £120bn.  However I think it is worth looking at the good work that the Campaign for an English Parliament has done in reply to Nicola Sturgeon’s submission to the House of Lords inquiry. 

Below is the article and here is the table that the CEP have prepared. 

It looks like the incompetence of the British Establishment is likely to land all those of us in England, Wales and Northern Ireland with an additional debt of £1,737 for every man, woman and child.  Perhaps even more realistically that would be approaching £6,000 extra for every English tax-payer. 

If you are not keen on Scottish Independence you might feel further disgruntled if you take notice of what has happened to the opinion polls since the concerted attack on the SNP over this: Support for Scottish Independence amongst those likely to vote has increased quite considerably.  So not only have Lib/Lab/Con probably landed us with larger bills but they have also failed in their objective of reducing support for Scottish Independence!  What a brilliantly effective tank trap that was Alex! 

Here is the article:-
 

Debt bombshell if Scotland quits UK


TAXPAYERS from England, Wales and Northern Ireland are in line for a £1,737 debt bombshell if Scotland quits the UK, campaigners have warned.

Alex Salmond has said an independent Scotland would walk away from the UK’s massive national debt if it is blocked from sharing the pound.

The UK owes around £1.2TRILLION – equivalent to £18,993 per head if shared equally among UK nations, the Campaign for an English Parliament said.

But if Scotland votes “yes” in September’s referendum, the individual debt burden would rise to £20,730. This would likely lead to more cuts to public services or rising taxes as the Government battles to get the UK’s finances under control, the group claimed.

Its stark warning is laid bare in written evidence submitted to the Lords Constitution Committee, which is exploring the constitutional implications of Scottish independence for the rest of the UK. Chancellor George Osborne has rejected the prospect of Scotland keeping the pound if it becomes independent. He is backed by Labour and the Lib Dems.

But last month Scottish First Minister Mr Salmond warned that his decision would “backfire spectacularly”. The SNP boss said Scotland would only take on its share of the national debt if it kept a slice of “shared UK assets” like the currency. “All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury,” he warned. “And Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours.”

Eddie Bone, director of the Campaign for an English Parliament, said it was clear Scotland could legally get out of paying its share of the UK debt. “I have no doubt that will impact on our public services and possibly lead to higher taxes in the rest of the UK,” he said. “The English need to be given their own political voice so they are able to protect their assets.”

Britain’s national debt currently stands at just over £1,200,000,000,000 and is rising. As of 2011, there were 63,181,775 people living in the UK. That means a debt cost per head of £18,993.

Without Scotland paying its £100million share (divided between 5.3m people), the cost per person in England, Wales and Northern Ireland rises to £20,730.

Some 84 per cent of the UK population live in England, while 8.4 per cent live in Scotland, 4.8 per cent in Wales and 2.9 per cent in Northern Ireland.

http://www.thecep.org.uk/2014/03/26/debt-bombshell-if-scotland-quits-uk/

Scottish Government demands all UK State assets in Scotland outright and also a share in all other UK State assets!

Scottish reivers or Border Raiders in action

In a previous Blog article I reported on the submission which I put in on behalf of the English Democrats to the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords. The written submissions to the Committee have now been published on the Committee’s website.
 

Nichola Sturgeon MSP, for the SNP and the Scottish Government, has put in the Scottish submission. 

Whilst I think it would be sensible to see this document as a negotiating positioning document rather than the SNP’s final view on what they would be willing to accept, I think we can see that they are rapidly moving towards the point when not only will they demand many of the State assets of what is now the United Kingdom, but also will probably refuse to take any of the debt.

Click here to see the details>>> http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/WrittenEvidence.svc/EvidenceHtml/6969.

What however does come out strikingly is the Scottish determination to not only have their own Scottish cake but to eat the English cake too!

Consider the following quotation from the Scottish Government’s submission:-

11. Following a vote for independence, the Scottish Government will negotiate with Westminster to agree a sharing of assets and liabilities that is fair, equitable and reflects Scottish needs and those of the rest of the UK. Assets already used to deliver devolved public services in Scotland, such as schools, hospitals and roads, would remain in Scottish hands. Physical assets located in Scotland and needed to deliver currently reserved services, such as defence bases and equipment, and buildings to support administration of welfare, tax and immigration, will transfer to the Scottish Government.

12. Assets located elsewhere in the UK will also have to be included in negotiations, as Scotland has contributed to their value over a long period of time. For physical assets like these, the equitable outcome may be to provide Scotland with an appropriate cash share of their value.

What we can now see here is that the Scottish position is that any UK State asset that is within Scotland should go to Scotland absolutely. Whereas any asset which is outside of Scotland is to be treated as being partly Scottish. 

Ironically Nicholas Sturgeon MSP says that this will be “a sharing of assets and liabilities that is fair, equitable and reflects Scottish needs…”. 

You have got to laugh!

Scottish Government demands all UK State assets in Scotland outright and also a share in all other UK State assets!

Scottish reivers or Border Raiders in action

In a previous Blog article I reported on the submission which I put in on behalf of the English Democrats to the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords. The written submissions to the Committee have now been published on the Committee’s website.
 

Nichola Sturgeon MSP, for the SNP and the Scottish Government, has put in the Scottish submission. 

Whilst I think it would be sensible to see this document as a negotiating positioning document rather than the SNP’s final view on what they would be willing to accept, I think we can see that they are rapidly moving towards the point when not only will they demand many of the State assets of what is now the United Kingdom, but also will probably refuse to take any of the debt.

Click here to see the details>>> http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/WrittenEvidence.svc/EvidenceHtml/6969.

What however does come out strikingly is the Scottish determination to not only have their own Scottish cake but to eat the English cake too!

Consider the following quotation from the Scottish Government’s submission:-

11. Following a vote for independence, the Scottish Government will negotiate with Westminster to agree a sharing of assets and liabilities that is fair, equitable and reflects Scottish needs and those of the rest of the UK. Assets already used to deliver devolved public services in Scotland, such as schools, hospitals and roads, would remain in Scottish hands. Physical assets located in Scotland and needed to deliver currently reserved services, such as defence bases and equipment, and buildings to support administration of welfare, tax and immigration, will transfer to the Scottish Government.

12. Assets located elsewhere in the UK will also have to be included in negotiations, as Scotland has contributed to their value over a long period of time. For physical assets like these, the equitable outcome may be to provide Scotland with an appropriate cash share of their value.

What we can now see here is that the Scottish position is that any UK State asset that is within Scotland should go to Scotland absolutely. Whereas any asset which is outside of Scotland is to be treated as being partly Scottish. 

Ironically Nicholas Sturgeon MSP says that this will be “a sharing of assets and liabilities that is fair, equitable and reflects Scottish needs…”. 

You have got to laugh!